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Aghora at modern times
Interview with Baba Hariji (Harihar Ramji), Guru of Aghor
Sonoma Ashram, California
Questions: Ilya Zhuravlev,
Denis Zaenchkovsky, Sergey Babkin, Boris Sirchenko
Interview: B. Sirchenko. New York, 2004.
Harihar Ramji baba
First of all, I’d like to
thank you for coming to New York and for your Satsang in Shakti Yoga Center.
It’s a great honor for us to host you here. Could you please explain what the
main idea of Satsang is?
Hariji Baba: Sat … Sanga … The word “Sat” means “true” and “Sanga” means
“to be together with something”. In other words it means “to be with Truth” (to
be surrounded by Truth). We are being influenced by surroundings. For example,
you are sitting, and somebody is coming to you - whatever they bring with them
makes an impact on you. In my opinion, the main idea of Satsang is to remind us
about the Truth that we are.
What is the basic element of Satsang? Is it a mental unification with the
guru?
It is unification with the Truth, which is always present inside us.
Do you help people to find a way to the unity with the Truth?
Yes. Actually I just remind them about what they already have inside.
If someone is not present in the room physically, is it enough to just think
about you and to restore this unification if someone has questions?
Well, if there is someone who reminds you about the Truth (this is, actually, a
concept of the Guru - his presence reminds you of divine essence which is you
are) then both help - thoughts about him and his presence.
Did you ever happen to witness how Satsang had changed someone’s life?
Yes, my Guru has changed my life. And there are many stories similar to mine.
You know, the Guru is not just a man. The word “Guru” means something huge, your
higher essence. And till you get in touch with your inner Guru, it is very
important to stay in touch with external Guru. He helps you to find your
internal Guru. When you get your internal Love you are able to share it with the
world around you. This love does not come from outside. It is already in you.
Love, trust, respect – all these virtues are revealed towards the Guru first and
then you understand that you’ve always possessed them. It happened in my life.
I’ve met a person, became fond of him, and the only his presence was enough to
make me feel excited. The matter was not what he was talking about; I’ve heard
those things for hundreds of times already. But he was talking about those
things at the right moment and in the right form, so for me it always was a
shock that turned me back “home”. You’ve asked about the moment … and there was
such moment. He was sitting, and I was sitting next to him. And I felt calmness.
There were no words, there was a reality. And this calmness was so delightful,
that I can hardly describe it with words.
In the West Aghor tradition is known from
Robert Svoboda's books
mainly. Does he present this tradition correctly? What is the main difference
between Aghor tradition and other Hindu teachings? What is the main objective of
spiritual practice in your tradition?
Svoboda tells about what he has learnt from being in a company of the one he
names his teacher. But my understanding of Aghor is the following. In the word
“Aghor” or “A Ghor” “a” means “not” and “ghor” means “awful, difficult”. All
what is not difficult and not awful is Aghor. Aghor is simple. This is a natural
and spontaneous state of consciousness. Aghor is a state of reality. It is not a
tradition, a cult or a religion. It is a state of reality you can experience in
any tradition and ideology. When you enter into the state of absence of
preferences, you are in the state of Aghor. My school accepts no bounds. Be
boundless. Because any bounds that we create, limit us, and contain big supply
of potential energy. It is necessary to release the energy that creates borders
around us and to feel the higher essence again - and this is what practice
consists of. For example, the main practice in ours ashrams consists in
embracing the outcast; we embrace those who are scorn. You’ve read about Aghori
who went to cremation spots and ate raw flesh or other repulsive things, but in
fact, they were trying to overcome the feeling of disgust. Sitting at a
cremation place, they work trying to surpass the fear of death. If you feel
disgust for something and say it is repulsive, it limits you. Therefore the
concept of death bears a great amount of energy. How to free this energy? How to
dissolve these borders? You have to come closer to it. If you are afraid of
something, come closer to the source of your fear. If you look inside your mind
it becomes clear, that fear is just an idea (a concept). If you come closer to
it and study it, it becomes obvious, that fear is not real. That is why if we
are afraid of something or we detest something, we just need to come closer to
it, with open arms ready to embrace and then the force that kept us at a
distance becomes our ally. This is my understanding of Aghor. In our ashrams in
India we work with lepers. Leprosy causes fear and disgust in the majority of
people. When Baba, my teacher, was meeting a leper, he embraced him and took to
the hospital, to the ashram, and was not afraid of touching him with hands. He
embraced something that raised fear and disgust in the most of the people. It is
the same philosophy. Someone sits at cremation spots and eats raw flesh to
overcome fears and disgust, but Baba did it in another way. It took into his
arms the people that others denied with disgust. The principle is the same, but
its realization is different.
Could you please tell about your teacher and sampradaya (line of disciple
succession)?
We have the ashram in Sonoma in California. One of the main ashrams is in
Benares (Varanasi). For the last five hundred years it is keeping up the fire
that supports the tradition. As I have already mentioned, Aghoråshwar Bhagavan
Ramji, my teacher, gave a new direction to the knowledge that was kept in
secret, the way of Aghor. He brought it into the society and told that it should
be changing together with this world. Aghor that used to be practiced on
cremation spots or other secret places, became more practical, more accessible,
but it still keeps its former principles. The principles and energy of practice
remain the same. Now Aghor has become a school of selfless service and sadhana.
It is our practice nowadays. For our inner life we carry out sadhana, and
service (seva) becomes its external display. Through this work you start to
understand that only selfless service is true. Sadhana and selfless service are
two aspects of our practice.
Aghor tradition attracts a lot of young people because of extreme vamachara
practice («the left hand path»). They like to read about practices on smashans
(cremation sites), with the use of skulls, sexual rituals and even toxic
substances. The youth in western countries has got used to see it in films, to
hear about it in heavy metal songs, they have enough sex in extramarital
relations and many of them start to take drugs in senior classes of school and
consequently what seems to be awful to orthodox Hindus-vegetarians doesn’t seem
awful to them. Very much the opposite - it looks more attractive. What do you
think about this?
That is why I believe that these out-of-date practices would not work in the
west. An idea is that you work with what is extreme for you, what limits you,
what has the power over you, and you try to overcome these restrictions. Flesh,
alcohol and sex are usual things in the west and do not possess any potential.
After you’ve experienced these things once they do not carry potential energy
any more, they do not work for those who constantly resort to these things.
While for orthodox vegetarians and those who observe celibacy such practices can
be very effective. So, the philosophy is that you do what limits you, what looks
impossible to you, and you do it with the feeling of sanctity of the process.
Then the potential that is detained by these restrictions can be dissolved and
put in the necessary direction.
Are there any criteria for those who want to follow your tradition?
Everyone just has to look back and distinguish his own restrictions. You should
realize what puts you in limits, and work towards dissolving these borders. For
example, if you are limited by rage, you have to dissolve it and use the
released energy of rage for your development. Then it becomes a good aspect of
sadhana. If you feel fear, face it and use its energy for creation. It is the
sadhana, it is the practice. These things are very practical and available for
everyone, and are necessary in the present world. In the presence of the Guru
and firm practice the transformation can really be achieved.
Do you teach traditional Aghor - meditations at dhuni (or funeral fire)? Do
your disciples take up any vows?
No. And the practice is very simple. A practitioner gets initiation and Aghor
mantra. The repetition and work with this mantra becomes his practice. Disciples
are encouraged to clear up their practice with Homa (a sacred fire ceremony)
each full moon and use the mantra to overcome their restrictions. We fulfill
certain number of japas (mantra repetition) every day and we carry out seva
(selfless service) in the world, that's all. The word sadhana designates sadhya
– something that can be practiced. Otherwise in books you can find many esoteric
practices that were done by yogis many years ago. If you cannot practice it, if
it does not have sense for you, if it does not work in your daily life, it is
just not for you. I believe that today we have to practice something that does
not destroy our family lives, something that does not confront our social
obligations. Find out some time, put this time for practice, and it would be
enough to keep up your wisdom (laughs).
What Tantras or Agamas (scriptures) your tradition is based on? Do you
worship any Deity?
In our school we worship Shakti, because Shakti is everything that exists.
Everything loses its existence without Shakti. Shakti displays itself in various
forms. Shakti is in a core of essence of all things, both animate and inanimate.
Each molecule of the Universe contains Shakti. And it has already been proven by
modern science that all is energy, distinctions exist in its external display
only. Everything in this world is Shakti’s display, and we worship her. It is
given various names for worshiping: Kali, Tara, Lakshmi. They mean various
aspects of Shakti. Actually, Shakti represents the universal energy. We can
compare Shakti to the electricity. There are lots of devices of various
application, type and function, but they can work only by means of the
electricity. Shakti is displayed through each of us, through our speech, hearing
and sense of smell. This is all what we worship. To worship means to accept its
sanctity. As soon as we realize that all our actions are sacred we recognize the
Divine essence which we are, the only existing Truth.
Does your tradition use hatha yoga practice?
Hatha yoga is one of aspects in our practice. The basic pose that we use is
siddhasana. Aghor practitioners are not obliged to practice asanas, but many of
them do. To be able to stay in one position for a long time you have to keep the
flexibility and practice stretching. A very big accent is made on pranayama. But
Aghor tradition pays more attention to awareness of soul rather than body.
What sacred hatha yoga texts do you use?
Oh, if you ask me, they are not used at all, except for Gheranda Samhita. Have
you heard about this book? Yes, it is a remarkable text. Probably, it is not
written as well and as precisely as Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, but it is also
authentic. Write down the name, you can probably find it in English.
In the west many people come to yoga through practicing asanas and pranayama.
But with the lapse of time they get more interested in spiritual aspects of the
practice. What should a person be if he chooses this system as his spiritual
way?
Yoga brings positive results irrespective of where it is taught and practiced.
At least, it opens a way for those who have not even heard about it before. As
soon as people go deeper and become aware of the unity with their own essence,
the realization comes. Sadhana and Seva are ways to keep up this realization.
Constant practice is required only for your internal cleanliness. You have a
guidance on your way, principles you live in accordance with and it helps you to
support yourself in the world. Otherwise, when your social life breaks up, you
have no place to get your own judiciousness from, and it becomes very difficult.
If you have a family you should provide it, to be next to those who emotionally
depend on you, to minister to a society and to do something for yourself. These
are four things you have to deal with every day in order your life had sense.
What discipline helps us to reach immortality?
Always remember what you are. Not what you fancy yourself but what you really
are. You are not a body. You often say “my house, my car, my shirt, my body”…
Who exactly says “my body”? Remember this. Do not identify yourself with a body,
but identify yourself with that immortal essence which you actually are. In
Hindu tradition the body is compared to clothes you get rid of when they wear
out and replace with the new. Remember this. Speaking in a simple language,
there is a cinema, a screen in it and a movie on the screen. Most of the time
you are carried away by story, picture and everything what happens at the
cinema. You do not think about the screen. But if the screen is not clear, but
dirty, you would not be able to see the movie. Remember about the screen which
is always clear, spotless and not adhered to any certain pictures. Lots of
movies can be displayed on this screen but it will always stay clear, faultless
and shining. This is a part of us which designates the immortality. You are
immortal. The idea is in understanding and remembering this and it is the matter
of practice and sadhana. And it is what you get due to satsang. You are reminded
that you are not a body, but a spotless Essence (a pure consciousness).
If anyone from readers of the Russian “YOGA” magazine will get interested in
studying Aghor tradition deeper how should they distinguish the real teacher
from “a baksheesh Baba” (a charlatan looking for glory and money)?
(Laughs) If they look just for an image they can find many bright images
wandering along the Ganges’ banks with long beards, big chillums (pipes for
smoking hashish), skulls, chains… But these are not real followers of Aghor
tradition. It does not pay attention to your appearance any more. If you are
sincere in your search you should find the one who will help you to feel the
calmness and responsibility for your Essence and the society. That would remind
you about something deeper than a form. You can meet many “baksheesh babas” but
it is not so simple to find the real teacher. And the day when you find your
teacher, the guru, would consist for 80% of the travel done, for 10% of the
efforts taken and the remaining 10% would show up when you are ready, and your
teacher would simply give you a kick, and you jump over a threshold (laughs). To
find the teacher means to plunge into his doctrine completely, and then you stop
your searches. When I have found my teacher, I was in such a state, that even if
someone said that the God has appeared with ten heads and twenty hands and gives
darshan to everyone around the corner, I would not even get a desire to go and
see. I was fully satisfied with my Guru’s company.
For the Russians it is very expensive and quite problematic to get to the
USA, can you recommend any places, ashrams or temples in India or Europe where
it is possible to get information about the real Aghor?
I think that the most important thing is to inform Russian people, that Aghor is
not something mystical and difficult. Practice that finds a resonance in heart
and consciousness is needed. Service and common social life are in greater
demand now rather than stunning, esoteric practices. Many writers describe Aghor
as magic, mystical practice working with this or that power, but very often it
is written by people who were not involved in this practice seriously or deeply.
As a result, all the powers lose their attractiveness, and only your Essence
remains. That is why it is important to develop the practice that would nourish
your Essence (Higher Self). I spend two months every year in our ashram in
Varanasi (India). (Before visiting the ashram you have to inform about your
visit via e-mail. You have to be able to speak English. - editors note)
Would you say few words to the readers of the Russian "YOGA” magazine?
Yes. I would say: “PRACTISE!” Whatever your practice is. It is not important
what exactly you name to be your practice. What is practice? Practice is
recognition of the Divinity that is you are. Whatever you do for the sake of
this divinity’s recognition is your practice. Your practice should be sacred. Do
you know what the word sacred means? Something that has been “carved out” (set
apart). We carve out some time from twenty four hours to recognize the Divinity
that is in us. It does not matter what form it takes. The main thing is that it
finds the response in your heart and consciousness, and you know that you have
given five, ten minutes, to worship the Divinity inside you. Carry it out daily;
make it a part of your life, as teeth brushing. The second step of yoga, Niyama,
consists of five aspects. Shaucha, cleanliness, is one of them. We adhere to
external cleanliness, but we should do something consciously and with pure
intentions for our internal cleanliness. This is what I can say. You are divine.
Therefore find some time, carve out some time from your daily life to recognize
the Divinity, and it is not important how you do it. Let it become your
practice. We have already spoken about the popularity of Tantra - getting the
sacred right for a maximum of sexual pleasure. But Tantra is not sex. If you ask
me, what is Tantra within the limits of our school; I would say that it is
bringing sanctity into the each aspect of your life. The way you wake up, step
on the ground, put clothes on, brush your teeth, take a shower, cook food, the
way you drink tea - into everything, and into the way you make love. All actions
can become tantric. Everything, as everything is sacred.
Understand, that we are
Divine, and make sacred each aspect of your life: from awakening in the morning,
walking on the ground up to making love. But it happens that before we pay
attention to these trifles of life, we start experimenting with a big fire
(sexual passion). And it ends up with burning down the house. The essence of
Tantra is to introduce sanctity into each aspect of our life. In India they
apply different mantras to different actions. There is a mantra for brushing
teeth or for taking shower where you mention names of all sacred rivers that
flow on your head. There are mantras for every aspect of life. You read mantra
before taking food or water. Mantra repetition reminds you of sanctity of the
action that you are going to take. If we apply here some modern understanding,
one deep and conscious breath before doing something would be enough. Nothing
mystical, just make one good deep breath. You see, I always say things easy to
fulfill and available for everyone.
Satsang at Sonoma ashram
Today during Satsang when people were here, there was a feeling as if we all
gathered near the ocean, and everyone knew that the ocean has plenty of water.
Thank you very much for the interview, for visiting New York. It is a great
pleasure for us.
It is my pleasure. I do not declare my uniqueness; I’m the same as other people.
I just live, and if something excites me, I share it with people reminding them
that they are Divine. Everything you need is already inside you. Try to become a
friend to yourself and somebody else. Today we really need friends. Who is a
good friend? A good friend is someone who inspires you to live according to your
higher ideals. Some people that come to us are overflowed with negative
feelings. They complain to their spouses or someone else. Often they start
complaining together. But the real friend will remind them that there is another
aspect of life. That it is possible to look at their biases from another
perspective and cope with their negative feelings. If you have a chance to
remind people about their higher Essence, about their higher powers and ability
to overcome a negative attitude, it is very similar to what a good friend does,
and that is what the Guru does.
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Editor notes:
Detailed information about
the tradition and lineage of Baba Hariji is at
sonomaashram.org
Ashram in Varanasi - “Aghor Guru Seva Peeth” Mahesh Nagar Colony (banks of the
Ganges) Nagwa, Lanka, Varanasi, India. Tel: 0542-2368-813 E-mail:
ashram@aghor.org (see the map of Varanasi and ashram location and rules at
website)
Russian Yoga Magazine, #1,
2004
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